It’s Not Burnout—It’s Betrayal with Lora Cheadle

Tati: Are you feeling exhausted, burned out, and wondering why nothing seems to help? Maybe you’ve tried all the self-care strategies, but still feel drained and disconnected from your work and life. What if you’re experiencing isn’t just burnout, but a deeper sense of betrayal that you haven’t recognized yet?

Today we’re joined by Laura Cheadle, J-D-C-H-T. A leadership, wellness coach and bestselling author who experienced this firsthand after leaving her successful career as an attorney, Laura discovered a profound truth. Sometimes what we call burnout is actually a hidden betrayal of our values, expectations, and sense of self.

In this powerful episode, you’ll learn how to identify these invisible betrayals. Understand why traditional burnout solutions might not be working for you, and discover practical tools to reclaim your energy and step back into your power. Let’s get into it.

Hey, Laura, it’s great to have you here on the podcast. I am so excited about the conversation and especially the unique angle that you provide when it comes to the distinction between burnout and betrayal. So can you share more about what, what you mean by that? You know, if somebody maybe thinks they’re struggling with a burnout, what could be the, the difference if it’s possibly betrayal as well?

Yeah, absolutely. Thank

Lora: you for asking that. Burnout is real. It’s defined by the World Health Organization as, um, too much work. Too much work over time when you have chronically too much to do, and just that feeling of, ugh, I can’t, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t go on. And it is, it is real. And I think that’s where I kind of wanna start this conversation because sometimes as I explain the difference, I think it can be a little confusing.

Like, well, is burnout real? Yes, burnout is real. It’s too much work, too much to do, not enough support. Chronic, just overworking. Now what is a little bit different though, is betrayal. Betrayal is defined as the breaking of an expectation that you have relied on. That ruptures your view of yourself, the world, your career, something material, and we don’t talk about betrayal very much.

But betrayal is something that happens to all of us. And I know when we talk about betrayal, the first thing that comes up is like infidelity or somebody you know, revealing a secret that they shouldn’t reveal. And yes, that’s betrayal too. But if you go back to that definition, not getting a promotion that you really have always thought you would.

That you relied on that makes you feel like I’m only worthy if I get this promotion. That can be a betrayal as well. And it’s not that somebody is taking this bad action against you, it’s just that you have these expectations and when those expectations aren’t fulfilled, that internal sense of betrayal starts churning.

Betrayal is an icky feeling, and the symptoms produced by Betrayal are very, very similar to the symptoms produced by burnout.

Tati: Yeah, that’s, that’s an interesting perspective. So I’m hearing that it’s really expectations that you have. That aren’t being met and not necessarily somebody’s intentionally hurt you.

Like you’re saying, we, we automatically think of when it comes to infidelity, but it could just be you were expecting a, a promotion or to get some sort of change and then that did not occur. So what. What are those signs that you were talking about? Like

Lora: burnout. It’s just that, ugh, I’m, I’m disengaged. I don’t even want to show up.

Where you just show up and you think, I just can’t, I can’t, I can’t even, not one more day. But the difference between betrayal and burnout is with betrayal. You start getting that. Bitterness, that sense of, yeah, they did this to me. You start moving into that slight victim mentality. What did I do to deserve this?

I’ve tried so hard and nobody is appreciating me. I didn’t sign up for that. So there’s so many similarities, but with betrayal, it’s that victimy edge, that bitter edge that I did so much and nothing is working out for me, type of an edge.

Tati: Yeah. And I am sure that that could be relatable to a lot of people and maybe they’re having like an aha moment now at, at hearing that.

And something that I like to think about is like the gap between, and I think you mentioned this when, when I read your book, like that gap between. Expectation and reality. Yes. And you know, I think the larger that gap is sometimes the more that we can experience suffering or resentment or frustration.

Can you talk more about how that shows up when it comes to that feeling of betrayal?

Lora: Yeah,

Tati: absolutely.

Lora: And, and I wanna start a little bit by just talking about those expectations. We all have expectations. You know, we wake up and we expect to be able to get to work on time. We expect to have whatever it is, orange juice or milk in the refrigerator.

Like there’s these things that we expect and there’s these low levels of disappointment. You know, sometimes you wake up, you go to the refrigerator and you’re like, really? Who put the milk carton away? There’s like four drops of milk left. Ah darn it. And okay, it broke our expectation, but it’s not a big deal.

Where it starts becoming a big deal is where we have these internal expectations about like who I am and what I am worth. Like when I was practicing. I was also having my kids and building my career and building my family and my whole like worldview was that you can have it all. You just lean in and the smarter you are and the more capable you are and the more organized that you are, the more you will succeed.

So. I hadn’t really identified that. That was my expectation, but I expected to be able to do it all. I expected to be able to be calm and to be successful, and to be joyful, and to have a clean house, and to have kids that behaved and to have this happy marriage like I expected this fairytale and I never identified in myself.

This is my expectation. I never challenged, is this a realistic expectation? I was just going on the belief that if you do the right things, you will be wildly successful and everything is gonna work out for you. So that was that gap. Life started happening and it really started chipping away at my identity and I started internalizing and thinking, what am I doing wrong?

What am I doing wrong? Why aren’t my kids sleeping through the night? Why aren’t my kids potty training easily? Oh my gosh, why are my kids sick again? I need to have another day off work. Oh my gosh, the daycare lady isn’t showing up. Oh my gosh, my husband isn’t stepping up to the plate. My grandparents are getting sick.

They’re dying. What am I doing wrong? What am I doing wrong? What am I doing wrong? And it was this huge gap that I had never really identified. As my expectations, as my beliefs, and that’s when they really came crashing down around me and I had to step back and like reevaluate who am I? What do I believe about myself and life, and how do I rewrite the story that I’m not failing?

Nobody can do all of this. The story was wrong. I’m not wrong.

Tati: Yeah, and it seems like you had, which I think many of my listeners can relate to being high achievers, this expectation of kind of this. Perfect or ideal life. Yeah. And can you speak more to just your journey of what your experience was that brought you to this point of discussing burnout and, and portrayal?

Lora: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting how, how journeys evolve, isn’t it? Mm-hmm. I started off as a corporate attorney and yes, I was and am a high achiever. I always lean in, I always think I can do more and kind of a perfectionist. I never saw that as a problem. It’s like, well, of course I’m going to succeed.

Of course I’m going to get the degree. Of course I’m gonna do all of these things. That’s who I am. And I took pride in who I was. Well, as things started to become more and more difficult, I had two kids under two. I had a husband who traveled and worked outta state two weeks out of every month, and I’m close to my family.

I had aging grandparents. I had family members with a lot of needs. It all started crumbling down around me. And I decided I needed to step back. I needed to walk away from work. I had always had a passion for wellness and fitness and mental health, and I thought now is the perfect opportunity. I can turn this situation into something good.

I can help people who are in my shoes and I can give them tools and skills to, you know, banish burnout. So I did, and I created this whole company and we did meditation, and we did mindfulness, and we did yoga, and we did journaling. And I found it was really curious because sometimes it would help and sometimes it wouldn’t.

And then even for myself, yes, it always helps to meditate. It always helps to take a walk in nature. But I was still burning out. I was still getting exhausted. I still didn’t know what I was doing wrong, so I kind of sat in that place for a while. Just wondering why are all of these burnout remedies not fixing the burnout?

For me and for other people. Along about that time, I found out that my husband had been cheating on me for 15 years. Wow. Oh yeah. It shattered me to a level that I didn’t even think was possible. And in being brought to your knees, obviously there’s a lot of pain. But there’s also a lot of opportunity for growth.

And in my healing journey I learned a lot about betrayal and what is betrayal and what does it mean. And when you’re betrayed, you have been victimized. You do go through grief, you do go through. But it’s more, it’s also the shattering of identity. So how do you hold all of that? How do you accept and hold the fact that you were victimized, but then not wear the role of victim?

How do you move forward? And as I was bringing all of that together and doing this work, it hit me. I have felt betrayed before. I felt betrayed in my career. I felt betrayed by life. I felt betrayed when my grandparents got old and die. I felt betrayed so many times and I had never defined it even, you know, gaining weight, having your body change, it was like a sense of betrayal.

It was this breaking of an expectation and that’s when it all started coming together for me. I’ve experienced betrayal a lot. We have all experienced it, and yet we don’t identify it. We only use tools like around grief and the stages of grief, but we never really address expectations. What are our expectations?

Who do we communicate those, uh, expectations too? Are our realistic, are our expectations realistic or are they just totally unrealistic? So that’s what brought me to this work was this combination of life experiences.

Tati: Yeah. I’m, I’m so sorry. You went through that and it sounds like you were able to take that challenging experience and, and turn it into a way to explore more about not just your own experience, but how you can apply.

Common sort of thread of betrayal to, to help others going through this and, and what I’m hearing is that there can be betrayal that occurs externally that is, you know, from other people. And there’s also that sense of internal. Betrayal. Can, can you talk more about the, the difference between those?

Lora: Yeah, absolutely.

Um, and you’re, you’re right on with that. People can betray us, systems can betray us, organizations can betray us, and, and that’s, that’s something that we have to come to terms with because somebody else has taken advantage of us. They have abuse their power, they have victimized distance in some sense, and in the healing of that, we can’t change other people.

I can’t change the systems on my own right now. I can’t make another person apologize to me and change. I can only control me. And as I said earlier, I was a perfectionist. I was a high achiever, and I thought those were really good things. But what I came to understand was all of the ways that I had betrayed myself in seeking to prove my worth.

In seeking to please other people. In seeking to live up to expectations, I say it’s like seeking to please to conform and to perform. I performed so much of my life without realizing I was performing. I thought I was doing the right thing, but I was seeking to please conform and perform, and in the process I was betraying myself.

I wasn’t letting myself say what was in my heart. I wasn’t allowing myself time to sleep or to rest or to be broken or vulnerable or sad. I would put on a persona without even realizing it, and it was this ultimate self betrayal. I didn’t have my own back.

Tati: Yeah, I, I think that’s so interesting. So it seems like it’s a betrayal of your own needs, you know?

Yes. What you’re talking about sounds to me like people pleasing and kind of putting others’ needs or even expectations. Before your own. And you also have mentioned a few times that sense of connecting like your identity or, or what you’re doing with your worth. And I think that’s something that’s so common in in high achievers, this tendency to feel like you’re only worthy if you are.

Doing certain things like achieving certain things or, you know, X, Y, and Z, whatever that looks like, can, can you speak more to that and how somebody can try and detangle from, from having their identity or their worth tied up in that.

Lora: Yes. And I wanna say it’s, it’s so hard because I think when you’re in it, it’s extra hard to see because I, I would have said at the time, no, this is who I am.

I’m a high energy, I’m an overachiever. Like I can do what, I’m strong, I can do this. And you’re right. It, it’s, it’s this people pleasing, but with this layer of, but I wanna please. And it makes it a little bit hard to untangle. One of the exercises that I challenge people to do is to think about introducing yourself to somebody without saying what you do, what your degrees are, what your religious, political, any affiliation is.

How would you introduce yourself? Because usually we’re like, hi, I’m Laura, I’m an attorney. I, and we go with all of those externals. So what would it be like? Who are you? Hi, I’m Laura and I really like to lean into joy and play, and I feel passionate about speaking truth, and I struggle to stay out of my head sometimes like.

How would you really identify who you are without those labels, without those rules, without those scripts. And I think that’s just the first place to be. And then also to be able to sit with and to be like, I don’t even know who I am. Oh my gosh, I don’t know. You know, I have gone to school, gotten degrees gone, gotten careers, chased this, chased that race families, I don’t know.

Then to just be okay in the, I don’t know, but to give yourself that space to kind of breathe and to figure it out and to come back home to your heart and to get curious, who am I? If everything fell away tomorrow, what would I be interested in?

Tati: I love that. And I, I love that exercise. ’cause I think it gets the.

Gears turning to try and identify who you are outside of those labels. Yeah. That we so often, I think, fall back on or tie ourselves to.

Lora: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and the concepts. Sometimes the concepts and the labels get conflated. I went to law school because I was passionate about justice, but in pursuing a career in the law.

It started not becoming about justice. It became about levels and roles and clients and income, and it started having to do less and less about really changing the world. And creating justice for people. And it came became more about levels and layers. And when I stepped away from practicing law, yes, there was a huge identity crisis.

Who am I? But it did give me that opportunity to drop back in and to say, I am somebody who is passionate about justice. What are the ways I can bring justice to the world? At the PTA at school in my neighborhood, volunteering for a cause, working in an animal shelter. How can I connect to that concept that was so important to me and detach and detangle it from what I do as a career?

Tati: Yeah, I think that’s such an excellent perspective and it’s really about stepping back from. Feeling like we need to do things to prove ourselves or to move up the ladder or for whatever those kind of arbitrary or external markers might be. And it’s more about connecting with what it is that’s important to us personally or what we value.

Lora: Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t know about you and the other listeners. But I lost track of that. And I think it’s very common for us to lose track of our reason, why our mission, just because we get so busy with life. I gotta get dinner on the table, I’ve gotta shop, I’ve gotta show up to this meeting, I’ve gotta do this, I’ve gotta pick up the dry cleaning, and it’s hard to stay connected to.

But who am I and what do I care about? And why am I here? Yeah.

Tati: Yeah, that, that’s such a great point and I, I can definitely relate to that. You know, before I got into what I’m doing now, where I thought, okay, I just need to move up the ladder. And I became a manager and I ended up burning out as a result.

’cause I realized, well that’s actually taking me further away from the work I enjoy. Right? Like I was managing a team rather than helping clients and being a therapist. And I realized. You know, to go with your framework of what you’re sharing. Like I hadn’t, I had been kind of like betraying my values in a sense, and, and just focusing on these external, okay.

You just need to keep moving up the ladder and, you know, yeah. Whatever those expectations are. Yeah.

Lora: And I love when you said betraying your values because. When I had mentioned joy earlier, laughter, joy play, those have always been things that were important to me, and when I was going into my total attorney persona, one does not think of attorneys as laughing and joyful and playful.

They think of them as serious. And I had realized how much I had betrayed that part of me by becoming the persona of the attorney that I thought I should be. And there was this radical shift. I can be any kind of an attorney that I want to be. I can be one that laughs and is joyful and cracks jokes and is playful.

And whereas bright colors, if you judge me for doing or acting or being a certain way, that judgment is on you. It’s not on me. And how can I, how can you bravely stand in the truth of who you are and release other people’s judgment if that judgment does come your way?

Tati: Yeah, no, I, I It sounds like it’s connecting with and being more open to being who you are authentically.

Lora: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Which, when we show up every day in our fullness, we don’t burn out as often. Because we are very clear with our boundaries and communicating and, and I know I can handle more today. I can handle less today, so we burn out less. But then also that sense of betrayal doesn’t kick in because we’re not betraying ourselves.

We’re standing up for our values. We’re leaning into the things that matter. We’re taking that step back and saying, huh, I’ve got some expectations around here. I was expecting to be understood. I was expecting that we could all get along. I was expecting, you know, X, Y, and Z. Hmm, this isn’t happening. Let me self-reflect.

Are those realistic expectations? Are those unrealistic expectations? What can I do to advocate on behalf of those expectations? So my expectations get met? And I feel satisfied and don’t go into this bitter spiral that nothing ever works out for me. They don’t see what they’re missing. They’re not appreciating me.

Tati: Yeah. So I’m hearing that it’s kind of stepping out of that. Victim place and kind of into the driver’s seat of what can you take control over and yeah. I’m curious, let’s say if we take a step back and if somebody’s resonating with this idea of betrayal, where might you recommend that they begin?

Lora: I think the first place, and this might surprise you, but I’ve got this fuel up framework and the fuel up, the F first F in the framework stands for Find Your Y, and I really think that is the first most important place to start.

If you start feeling like, I’m not appreciated at work. Nobody appreciates me. I hate this. I can’t stand it. Go with your why. Why are you here? Why did you select this career in the first place? What motivated you to apply? For this position at this company because sometimes there is a, a wild mismatch. You know, sometimes maybe you’re working for a defense contractor and you believe in peace, and the only reason you started working for the defense contractor was because the job was available and there is an underlying mismatch, and I think that’s the most important place to begin.

Are your values aligned or are they not? Because if the only reason you chose that job was money. It’s a different inquiry than if you chose a career and it is in alignment with who you are and things aren’t working out. So that first place is to find your why and connect with that.

Tati: Okay. And what might you suggest?

Because I think sometimes there can be, ’cause I absolutely agree with what you’re saying and I think also sometimes people can struggle with finding a job that is available when they’re looking for it, or you know, they’re just let go and needs to just find whatever’s available. What would you suggest for somebody that’s in that kind of situation?

Lora: Yeah, exactly and that’s why I start with that because you can absolutely make peace with working for an organization that isn’t alignment with your values. It’s figuring out what is my why? If my why is all about peace and I’m working for a company that is maybe, you know like that, a defense contractor, it’s not that they’re anti peace, but they’re in a defensive posture.

Where do I fulfill that need for peace elsewhere? Because it’s like a marriage. You don’t go into a marriage and marry somebody and expect them to meet all of your needs all the time, for every reason. You don’t go into a job or a career expecting that job or to career to meet every single reason, every single need.

So if your job is not fulfilling your reason why, what can you do to help fulfill that reason why? Whether it’s volunteer work, whether it’s a part-time job, whether it’s just doing something else somewhere else, how can you get that need met? Because then your job becomes the thing that gives you money.

You can do, take steps to make peace with your expectations around work, and then your expectations change. I do not expect this career to fulfill my every single needs. I expect it to fill my bank account. So your expectations shift, then those expectations are met and you feel better.

Tati: Okay. Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense.

And I’m curious if we can, you mentioned that fuel up framework and I know you talked about in your book, so what comes after the F?

Lora: Yeah, the U is uncover and that’s really uncover the truth about what’s going on. Are you burned out? Are you being chronically given too much work to do? Are you being tasked with too much?

Are you feeling a sense of betrayal? Is there like that, the mismatch in what’s going on with you and your values and the career and or the com company and its values uncover what’s really going on? Is it exhaustion? Is it that you’re having marital problems and you’re not addressing them and it’s coming out in weird ways?

Are you in grief over something else that’s going on? Is there a medical problem? Like uncover? Get radically honest about. What is the discomfort here? What is the problem? Because so often we address the wrong problem and we throw these solutions. Everybody says self-care is the solution. If self-care isn’t working, maybe you’re applying the wrong solution.

Get very clear about what the problem is so you can apply the correct solution.

Tati: If you’re enjoying this conversation and you want more support to feel calm, balanced, and confident in your daily life, then I invite you to join me free at my weekly ish [email protected] slash newsletter, I share practical tips, personal insights and resources designed.

Specifically for high achievers managing stress and anxiety so you can feel more grounded and in control. Again, that’s calmly coping.com/newsletter. I’d love to have you join us now back to the episode. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So you’re really getting curious about what’s actually happening. So it’s not just like what you were saying you experienced before where there was the meditation and the yoga and the wellness and all of that, but it wasn’t really addressing the root issue for many of the individuals you were helping.

Lora: Yeah, absolutely. In one of the exercises that I do give in my book, I ask people just to write down the problem is. Could be the problem as I’m burned out. Then take that word burnout, whatever your problem or it is. And just in two seconds, in three seconds, think about sort of a synonym. What is the word that you associate with burnout?

And it might be exhaustion, it might be race car, it might be tired, it might be mad, whatever it is. What is that association word for you? And oftentimes the word that you associate without thinking about it is the real problem. One of the words that comes up a lot when I do this with people is I’ll say, so what is it?

Burnout? And it’ll go to exhaustion. Well, exhaustion, maybe you’re not getting enough sleep. Truly. Maybe it’s a sleep issue and you’re trying to function on too little sleep and you’re not really burned out. Maybe you’re just absolutely physically tired. Yeah.

Tati: Yeah. And I think that’s so common for people who just want to keep pushing through and sleep.

Tends to go to the back burner. Yeah. And it’s all about how productive can I be? How much more can I do in the hours that I have in the day? And it’s just kind of an afterthought,

Lora: right? Right. But when we prioritize sleep and we take care of that exhaustion, suddenly our burnout mysteriously goes away because we have more capacity to cope.

Tati: Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. And so then after somebody’s uncovered mm-hmm. What’s going on? Yeah, that’s

Lora: when we go into, and I think this is the meat and potatoes expectation management, and that is identifying your expectations. Identifying, what do I expect from this career? I expect to be rewarded.

I expect to be seen. I expect to be famous. I expect like, and be realistic with yourself. Like be honest. What are you expecting? I expect to be Queen Bee. I expect to run the company in five years. Like sometimes we don’t wanna say those things because they sound so silly, but those are. Our expectations, so be honest, be brave, and identify what those expectations are.

If you then can communicate those expectations to somebody else without laughing, you know they’re realistic. If you can say to somebody, you know what? I expect to be done with work by seven every night, I expect to go home at seven, and you can communicate that to somebody, and that’s realistic. Then communicate it.

Have you communicated it? Because so often we just keep it inside and then we get resentful. Oh my gosh. It’s seven 30 and I’m still here. But have you communicated that you expect to leave by seven? I. Then if you can’t communicate it, like if your expectations are, I expect to be, you know, running this company in two years, I expect to have a 30% raise every year.

I expect to move to the corner office. If those expectations really can’t be communicated without you going, oh, that’s embarrassing, then you know, they’re not realistic. And then that’s up for you to be like, that’s really funny. I’m wondering where I thought I would succeed that rapidly. Where did I get that belief?

Because that really isn’t realistic because the idea of communicating it feels embarrassing. Yeah.

Tati: Yeah. I think that’s an excellent test, uh, to. Uh, you know, communicate it with somebody else. ’cause you might have that other person’s reaction, but you’re also saying, okay, if you’re embarrassed or maybe even just getting it out, you’re realizing, okay, maybe this isn’t realistic.

It kind of gives you a chance to question what, what you’re actually expecting.

Lora: Yeah. It just opens your eyes. And then that flows into that third part of, um, identifying your expectations, communicating and then advocating for them because there’s a difference between saying. I wanna go home at seven and I have been, you know, at my desk since six in the morning, and I do need to leave by seven.

I cannot physically do that. I cannot emotionally do that here. This is the boundary, this is the communication. How do you advocate for that thing that you need, because that’s the other part of it speaking. If this is what I want, and then advocating, that’s different things. And ADV advocating is hard. It really is hard.

It makes us feel awkward. It makes us feel vulnerable. But unless we advocate for the things that we want. We’re probably not gonna get them.

Tati: Yeah. And how would you recommend and that somebody advocate for what they want?

Lora: Yeah. Yeah. I statements and boundaries instead of, you expect too much, you are horrible to your employees.

You expect too much of me and I can’t do it. That puts people on the defensive. If you say, I. Have a hard time working past 10 hours. I need to go home. I am happy to work from home. I am happy to do whatever it is for you. I need to leave by seven. I need to pick up my kids. I am very committed to this company.

I am very committed to my job. There are other things that I am willing to do, but I really do need to leave by seven. That’s a different conversation because then you can start getting at what’s really going on. Why is there too much work that you’re still here past seven, this is what I would love for you to do at home.

Why don’t you come in a little bit later? Would it help if that opens up the conversation versus you, you, you, you, you, and this isn’t gonna work, and things like that.

Tati: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that’s a great way of communicating and I’m curious for your insights, because I know a lot of times what can happen is if somebody maybe is in that place of, you know, always.

People pleasing or going above and beyond. There can sometimes be this expectation from others that, okay, this is the quality of work you’re gonna do, or they’re gonna stay till eight or nine o’clock every day. So what would you recommend if there is pushback to setting that boundary? Because that means that maybe somebody else has to take on more work, or there’s gonna be a change in how things are at the workplace.

Lora: Mm-hmm. First, to recognize the discomfort that comes up around that. And to realize that whenever you’re advocating on behalf of yourself or somebody else, there probably will be a sense of discomfort, but it’s okay. We can all experience that pushback. We can all experience that discomfort. If we’re making somebody else feel a little bit uncomfortable, it’s up to them to own their feelings, just like it’s up to us to own our feelings, and to just have that awareness.

Start with that assumption that. It’s gonna be okay. If I feel something uncomfortable, it’s going to be okay. If they feel something uncomfortable, we can have this conversation. And to remember that the reason you’re communicating this is not to be mean. It’s not to be rude. It’s to take care of yourself, and it’s about having your own back, and it’s about solving problems.

It’s not about a win lose. It’s about how can we make this work? Because I do want this job. I do want success. I do want to feel good. I do want to pick up my kids from daycare at the right time. Whatever it is, life is hard. Having a difficult conversation is hard. It’s going to be okay. Feel those feelings.

Let them feel their feelings and just keep moving through it. And to remember at any time, you can call for a break. You could say, I’m, I need a few minutes. I am feeling uncomfortable. I sense that you might be feeling uncomfortable too. I am going to step away, walk to the restroom, get something to drink.

I’d like to continue this conversation in 10 minutes. Does that work for you?

Tati: Yeah. Those are some great communication tools and I think that can be something that people can. Apply in their day-to-day situations when they’re taking those steps to set boundaries. Um, you had mentioned then after expectations, well you didn’t mention it yet, but what’s, what do we have after that?

Lora: Yeah, that is l and that is around laughter. Uh, laughter is actually the number one way to calm and reregulate the nervous system. And like I had mentioned earlier, you know, you think to be a good attorney, you have to be stoic and strong and serious. I think that’s the case with so many careers. It’s, it’s the bottom line, and I have to make this work and I don’t wanna use laughter and offend anybody, and I don’t want people to see me as being fluffy or frivolous.

So we all tend to get serious. And then we, our nervous systems are constantly in this state of hypervigilant alert because everything is so serious. And if we can calm and reregulate all day long throughout the day, not only does it help us, but it helps those around us and use laughter, use levity.

Sometimes I use Instagram or social media just to find comedy clips. I follow comedians just because sometimes I need that hit of something funny. It’s hard, it’s stressful. I’m exhausted. I will seek out something humorous. I can even start thinking about people who crack me up. I try to keep some of those memories queued up in my brain about funny things that I’ve experienced about things that make me happy, and I choose to go there in stressful times because it keeps me out of that fight, flight, or freeze.

Tati: Yeah, I think those are some great suggestions and an important reminder. ’cause I think a lot of times when, like you’re saying, when you’re in this professional environment Yes, a role, it can feel like you need to be serious all the time. Um, and I’m hearing that there’s ways that you can personally connect with laughter.

I, I personally have recently been watching the show Curb Your Enthusiasm, which I, I love as a way of. I enjoy that comedy. I know it’s not for everybody. Yeah. But what would you suggest for like in the workplace? ’cause I know that sometimes not everybody has the same kind of sense of humor. No. Yeah,

Lora: yeah, exactly.

Couple of different things. One of the tips that I like to, um, give people is to consciously look for five things a day that you find humorous. Look for it. We are wired with a bias towards negativity. It keeps us safe. We are supposed to be scanning the environment and looking for all the things that could go wrong, and that’s what we do throughout the day.

We scan and we’re like, ah, somebody’s a mess. Ugh, this didn’t work. Ah, I hate this. Flip that to rewire your brain. Choose to find five things a day that make you happy. Find five things a day that make you smile. Look at that cute little toddler walking down the sidewalk. Look at that pretty plant over there.

Oh my gosh. Somebody just said something and it, and I overheard and it cracked me up. I really appreciate that person’s smile. Whatever it is, you can notice it. If it’s appropriate to comment, absolutely comment on it, bring other people in on it. And then the other thing, smile. When you smile and you contract those muscles in your cheeks, in your eyes, its sets off a cascade of all of those feel good hormones.

So smile. I don’t care if you’re sitting there at your desk, if you’re working on a laptop, smile. Raise your eyebrows. Make your face open. Set off that cascade of hormones. Of neurotransmitters, help yourself feel good. So then you’ve got this bright, open, um, face, and you’re commenting and you’re noticing five things a day.

Everybody starts feeling better.

Tati: I love that. Yeah. Those are some simple, actionable things that anybody can do to bring more, more joy, more laughter into their day. Yeah. Yeah. And what is the final piece after that? L?

Lora: Yeah, the final piece is up, and that stands for unbroken promises. And here’s what I want you to think.

If you had a friend that broke promises to you at the rate that you break promises to yourself. Would you even be friends with them? If you had a friend that was like, I’ll meet you at the gym every morning at eight, and they only showed up once, you would be like, flaky. Yet, how often do we break promises to ourselves?

I’m gonna start walking. I’m gonna drink more water, I’m going to eat better. I’m gonna read fiction because I enjoy it. I’m going to leave work at a decent time, walk in the sun, like all of these things. We have these grand plans for ourselves, don’t we? And then we’re like we. It’s like the New Year’s resolution and two weeks later we’re over it.

Stop breaking promises to yourself. Stop breaking promises to yourself. You are the only one that can put you in bed early. You are the only one who can drink water, cut out sugar, stop drinking, whatever it is. If you make a promise to yourself, put yourself first and keep it.

Tati: Yeah, that’s, that’s really I think, an important piece that I’m sure many people probably felt called out on of Yeah.

And, and not even recognizing how we might. Not keep the promises that we make with ourselves. Yeah. And and I would, I would imagine that an important, that connects importantly to having the realistic expectations, right? Because Yes, so many of my listeners I think, wanna do all the things and like we were talking about previously, like having this unquote perfect life.

And if those expectations are unrealistic, then that that is gonna result in a. Broken promises or that sense of betrayal.

Lora: Yeah. Yeah. And it goes back to I wanted to succeed. I still want to succeed, so. Back before I went through all of this and have changed the way I show up in the world. If somebody said, we need you, you’ve gotta do this, you’ve gotta, I’d be like, yes, I’m there.

Set the bar higher, I’ll clear it, I’ll jump it, I’ll do it. Who cares that I have to let everything go for myself? And I had this belief that especially as a female, women shouldn’t be selfish. Don’t be selfish. Take care of other people. And it’s the shift that. I can help you if somebody at work or at home or whatever has a need.

Absolutely, I can serve you, but I can only serve you when I’ve taken care of myself first. So yes, I can lean in after a good night’s sleep. Yes, I can lean in after taking a walk. Yes, I can lean in, but I’m not sacrificing myself in the process. And there’s that balance, and it’s really difficult, especially for high achievers to wrap their head around.

You don’t have to please conform and perform, and you will actually do better when you stop pleasing, conforming, and performing, and you will go further faster when you take care of yourself first.

Tati: Yeah. I think that’s really an important message and something that can take time to really digest and start to believe, especially if you’ve been so used to functioning in one way for so long.

Yeah.

Lora: Yeah. And think about it. Flip the script. Just last week, my husband, he’s an attorney also, had somebody say to him, I can’t, I have to pick up my kids by six o’clock. Nobody cared. Nobody fired him. Everybody understood, and I said to my husband at that time, isn’t it interesting when we were in that phase, the guilt, the stress that we felt saying, I can’t, I have to pick up my kids at six o’clock, and how I would turn myself inside out to make accommodations when it’s really as simple as saying, I can’t.

Here are the things that I can do. I can do it from eight in the morning until six at night. I am giving you this huge window. I just can’t do it after six. It’s not what I can’t do, it’s what I can do. Flip that script. It’s not a big deal.

Tati: Yeah, yeah, that, that’s a great shift there and even just thinking about, okay, if somebody else does it, then.

It doesn’t seem as big of a deal, but we kind of build it up ourselves to be this, this big deal, this make or break thing. Deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so those were, I, you know, I really love your perspective, that concept of betrayal, that fuel up framework, and I know that you share and dive deeper into that in your book.

So can you share more about that for listeners who would be interested?

Lora: Absolutely. It’s it, the book is called, it’s Not Burnout, it’s Betrayal, five Tools to Fuel Up and and Thrive. And it takes a deep dive into what is burnout. What is betrayal, how the symptoms are similar, how they’re a little bit different, and then it goes through those five fuel up steps to really help you start managing those feelings of betrayal so you can.

Take steps to feel better so you can stop feeling victimized, bitter, oh my gosh, this isn’t what I planned, and actually start creating a life, a work, a family, a home, whatever environment that you want that works for you in service of never betraying yourself again. In service of living in a way where you are committed to yourself, to your values, to your joy, to your happiness, to your, to your health, and you can actually do more and be more and feel better while doing it.

Tati: That all sounds excellent, and I’ll absolutely leave links to that in the description, the show notes, as well as links for where people can connect with you. Is there anywhere that you recommend people go, whether it’s a website or social media?

Lora: Yeah, I’m on all social media. Um, my website is Workplace Burnout, and if you go to burnout or betrayal.com, you can download a free guide on burnout uncovered, and it’s tips on communicating and advocating around your expectations and to bring your team on board so you’re all aware of the difference between burnout and betrayal and can start.

Speaking the same language and really supporting each other in being all that you can be.

Tati: Awesome. That sounds like an excellent resource and I will link that as well. And thank you so much, Laura. This was a great conversation that I know my listeners can definitely relate to and I really appreciate you being on the podcast.

Lora: Good. Thank you so much for having me.